Season 3 - Episode 5 - Special Guest Jason Nazar
This transcription was completed through an automated service. Please excuse any typos or misrepresented words.
You can listen to the show here.
Cousin Bill 0:01
From the books and podcast one, this has given the business boutique CEO John Tabis news girl, Katie Rotolo and me, cousins.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
Everybody,
Cousin Bill 0:22
everybody,
Unknown Speaker 0:23
everybody. Let's get into it. Get Started. Let's get started.
Unknown Speaker 0:34
To start in
Unknown Speaker 0:35
the skill started,
John Tabis 0:37
give him the biz y'all.
Unknown Speaker 0:40
Let's get it started. Y'all
Unknown Speaker 0:45
started in here.
Cousin Bill 0:49
Welcome to the given the biz podcast. Please welcome your hosts, the prince of peonies, the diminutive dominator of the flower business the real life inspiration for the Fighting Irish logo. John Tabis.
John Tabis 1:03
Hey, everybody diminutive I take offense. five, eight and three quarter is never diminutive. Welcome back to give them the biz. had good good to see everybody. Well not see you, Bill. I can kind of see you over there. What's up? What's up, cousin bill?
Cousin Bill 1:22
What's up guys? Good to hear you. Yeah. Hey,
Unknown Speaker 1:27
buddy. Joe.
John Tabis 1:28
What's up Kenny Machado.
Unknown Speaker 1:29
Hey, I'm
Katie Rotolo 1:30
doing it right. How are you guys?
John Tabis 1:31
Good. Right. Good. That's us real rich people. We're good. Representing the rich. Hey, look
Unknown Speaker 1:39
rich in what's
John Tabis 1:40
what's a little bit crazy. Bill is that two podcasters have come out of the rule. Rich. Yeah, we both happened.
Katie Rotolo 1:47
I thought you said rural rich. And I was like, Oh, all right. Cool.
John Tabis 1:53
Well, rich is definitely not rural. Rich. That is not. That is not what goes down the rich. God bless you the rich, what's up? This is definitely a world record for the number of times rural rich has gotten a shout out in the podcast, let's call Guinness bill, we're gonna hashtagging it. Absolutely. Welcome back, everybody. Super excited to be back. We have an amazing guest today. Jason is our multi time founder, sort of like the sage of silicon beach and super excited for both bill and Katie to me, Jason. He's been a friend and mentor to me throughout my entire journey. And he'll talk through, you know, his multiple journeys and what he's up to he's, he's worked for Mayor Garcetti on the technology side, like this guy's been around and done a lot of great stuff. Um, you know, I just wanted to say one, one real quick thing about about gratitude, which, it's not going to take long, because we have a lot to go to go into today. But I had this friend, john, hey, Matt, what's up? JOHN, if you're listening, I don't know if john listens or not. But what's up john, and john, john and i went to high school together, and we were friends. We weren't like best buddies. But we were friends like good guy. We had some good times hanging out. And, and we've stayed in touch, like loosely on Facebook. And and he started a business recently. And you know, we've talked a little bit more on messengers about like this net and other thing or whatever we kind of caught up. And john, in early mid September, right before I turned to the big four, one, randomly was like, Hey, man, what's your address? I want to send you something. I was kind of like, Oh, I figured he's sending me like, I don't know, some some like a card, or I don't know what he's gonna send. But I'm like, Oh, yeah, here's my address, Michael. And john sends me this amazing, like, meat set for like a barbecue. Like, you know, you can get like a gift thing of food, right? And it's got steaks, and it's got chicken. It's like, it's a really nice high end sort of prime meat gift for like a barbecue person. And it was probably I don't know how much he spent on it. But it was not zero. It was it was a good amount of money. And I like was like so overwhelming. Like, wow, like, who just sends a gift to someone that's just a friend from 20 years ago. And so I messaged him like john, like, thanks so much. Like, what did I do to deserve this? And he was like, Oh, you know what, man, like, I just decided that I'm gonna just be thankful for people that I've met in my life that are great people, and that I respect them. So I decided to give you a birthday gift.
Unknown Speaker 4:25
That's amazing. That was like,
Unknown Speaker 4:26
Oh my gosh, like,
Katie Rotolo 4:27
you must have impacted him in some way you know, by reconnecting with I was asking like
Unknown Speaker 4:31
that I do something. Like I'm not
Katie Rotolo 4:33
I'm not Why are you being so nice?
John Tabis 4:35
I know. Like, are you making up for it? Were you mean to me once that I forget it. But no, he was just genuinely thankful for our friendship. And I just thought this was amazing thing and was like cool, out of nowhere thing to do for someone. So I was just feeling really like, happy and and I felt gratitude for his gratitude for our relationship and it was just such an amazing gesture. So if you're out there, and you feel Like really some making someone's day like sure, send your best friend a birthday present, but maybe send just like the person that you were kind of friends with back in the day that you still really like something because that was a really amazing gesture by john. So prime Yeah, it was super cool. So I'm not going to go deep into things today because we got a guest and we want to make sure that we respect his time. But let's let's dive into some some news Katie vitolo
Unknown Speaker 5:23
coming up on today, Tom Cruise has a new movie and we're gonna be talking to him. Hey, funny man. Al Franken will be stopping by for a visit. And Wolfgang Puck shares his recipe for apple strudel. Hey, so stay tuned, because we've got all this and more coming up in the next hour.
John Tabis 5:40
Oh, well, nevermind. Wait, wait, wait. Before we go into the news, I'm going to make a prediction. Before the first story, Katie's gonna say we're talking about and then go into whatever it is. So Ready, set, go, Katie.
Katie Rotolo 5:56
I was actually going to take a moment of gratitude. Just Oh,
John Tabis 6:02
but after that, you're gonna say we were talking about right
Katie Rotolo 6:05
to piggyback on on that moment. You know, I I teach yoga every Sunday that we, you know, hours before we do this. And I just had a really wonderful practice rooted in gratitude today. And I mean, I always try to start my practice of gratitude. But anyway, it was Yeah, it's just something that I appreciate you feeling
John Tabis 6:23
a lot of gratitude for my mocking of your introduction.
Katie Rotolo 6:27
For you making a little less fun of me today, the usual, but it's still early. So we'll see.
Unknown Speaker 6:35
So now we're talking about in the news. Yes. mixing it up. People love it.
Katie Rotolo 6:42
All raise is a nonprofit, which I think it sounds like you are familiar with john.
John Tabis 6:48
Yeah. Love all Ray's crew, what's up our race crew?
Katie Rotolo 6:50
Well, they're amazing. They're doing really great work for startup inclusivity. So they're, they're making changes towards a more just an accessible business world. And they believe in diversifying the tech industry, because they think that all people should have the same opportunities, and to be fueled and succeed in build in the building of tech driven companies. So right now, they're working on doubling the percentage of female partners over the next 10 years, because right now, only 70% of 74%, excuse me, of us firms do not have a single female partner. So majority do not have a female partner. And of the 89, only 89 us firms that do have a female have female representation. Only 78% of them, excuse me, 78% of them only have one female partner within the company. So over the next five years, all raise his goal is to increase the percentage of venture funding going to companies with a female founder from 510 percent from 15 to 25%. So they're behind there the core behind two companies, called founders for change and female founder office hours if you've heard of them to john, but they all offer mentoring and resources for both female founders and for founders that are looking to diversify their staff.
John Tabis 8:10
Yeah, absolutely. I'm a founder for change. So this is a pledge you make to focus on diversity in your senior ranks, and also to take diversity into account when you take money from investors. But no, all raise is sort of the brainchild of a number of amazing women. But a couple of them that I know and i'll tell you about how I know them in one second. But you know, Dana, settle from gray Croft and amazing investor here here in Los Angeles. Stephanie Palmieri. She's from up north. She's awesome. Eva, whoa, from a fake adventure adventures, awesome local investor here in Los Angeles, Karen nortman from upfront ventures. Also awesome. You're a Kim from foreigner, and a curse in green from foreigner. So I know all these folks, not super well, all of them, but all of them as friends at the least. And the one thing that that really binds them all together, is that every single one of them rejected my pitch and did not invest in the company. So they're really smart, apparently. And But no, I mean, literally, I pitch for runner, I pitched the first round of felicis. I did I pitched fica and and actually, that was before Eva became a partner there. So to be fair, not Ava's fault, and I always say, I can't remember if it's Eva Eva, so I'm sorry, Eva, or Eva? It's, I can remember remember, I'm sure I'm getting it wrong all the time. Stephanie actually got close. We talked for like six months at one point. But Stephanie also ultimately rejected me hardcore. So
Katie Rotolo 9:41
now I know why. But I just wanted to talk about
John Tabis 9:44
no I want to talk about because it's an amazing effort. founders for change came my way. Because I was on a panel at a at a at an event shop talk, I think it was and then and spoke with some folks about it. They're signed up for that pledge. I just think they're doing amazing work and the And the great thing is it's not one fund. This is a cross fund. This is senior venture capitals, leaders all coming together for this cause. So love what all raises, doing, check them out if you want to learn more at all raise.org it's a really phenomenal organization. And you know, next time around, I'll raise peeps, if I if I get a female co founder, let's, let's say yes, next time. Hmm, that would be cool.
What else is gone Katie? Up next, we
Katie Rotolo 10:29
have Planetary Resources, which has been acquired by a blockchain company called consensus. So Planetary Resources was once a company backed by billionaires with these aspirations to mine asteroids, but then they had a bunch of funding problems and they actually failed in their last round of funding. But they were just acquired by this blockchain company and consensus the company that acquired them describes itself as, quote, a blockchain venture production studio focused on building and scaling tools, disruptive startups and enterprise software products powered by decentralized technology specific, specifically, Ethereum.
Cousin Bill 11:09
So I'm sorry, did you say mining asteroids? Yes, that's the most casual way that anyone's ever said. Oh, yeah, they want to mine asteroids like, yeah. So in real life, is what you're talking about right now? Pretty much.
Katie Rotolo 11:23
So it's not really clear. Yeah.
John Tabis 11:26
This is not doing the mining, then I am not
Cousin Bill 11:29
close. No, it's not
Unknown Speaker 11:33
sleep because I miss you Bay.
Cousin Bill 11:39
depth.
Katie Rotolo 11:39
So it's not really clear how these two companies are going to work together just yet. But they're the founder of consensus, Joe Lubin has said that they really want to bring Deep Space capabilities into the consensus consensus ecosystem, which reflects their belief in basically helping humanity craft new societal rules through automated trust and guaranteed execution. So he's talking about democratizing and decentralizing space endeavors to he goes on to say to unite our species and unlock untapped human potential.
John Tabis 12:17
So it's about as clear as blockchain is in general. Exactly. It's a now we all understand it, about the same. Here's the thing. I'm confused. So you have a billionaire who wants to mine asteroids, and they have funding problems.
Katie Rotolo 12:33
No. So there were this. Richard Branson actually wasn't an investor in this company. There have been several billionaires who have invested in the original company planet or Planetary Resources. And they ran a funding problem. They were Yeah, they were running into funding problems. And they failed the last time they How could
Cousin Bill 12:49
you ever run into funding problems with mining asteroids?
John Tabis 12:52
Well, well, that and multiple billionaires behind here's my thing, like Richard Branson has his own space exploration company. So they're plowing money into that. I mean, look, at the end of the day, it was it's like it's, it's somebody at some point found that founded a company and got some rich people to put in money for time travel to and just turns out, it's actually not practical anytime soon. Maybe someday. Yeah. And maybe just maybe they bit off more than they could you.
Katie Rotolo 13:19
So they're revising their plans after some funding
John Tabis 13:22
feels to me like this blockchain company was making an acquisition for PR purposes. It's my bet. It doesn't sound like they're actually going to mine. Any asteroids
Cousin Bill 13:35
disappointing. I think they're gonna they do
John Tabis 13:38
unless they're going to use the blockchain to make sure that everyone's being super honest about which asteroids the mining is coming from. Well, yeah, that's
Katie Rotolo 13:45
what it's about keeping them honest.
John Tabis 13:46
Because the blockchain right is essentially a big ladder, right? A big ladder since flowers from asteroids, that that would be pretty well, boom, billion, trillion dollar idea. So I think it'll be super efficient to send them to the asteroid and then back down to earth. But,
Cousin Bill 14:02
but from the asteroid, the blockchain,
John Tabis 14:03
let's just be clear, the blockchain is a big ladder that we take from Earth to the asteroid. Is that right? I just want to make sure I have this whole thing. decentralized ladder, decentralized ladder, so no one's gonna own it.
Cousin Bill 14:17
We're the idea guy, man. I'm not the logistics guy. Yeah, idea, man. So
John Tabis 14:22
Bruce Willis is gonna build a ladder to space that's what's happening. Exactly. Awesome. Yeah. All powered by by Ethereum. Sure I own a theory and by the way,
Cousin Bill 14:34
I can't even make a microphone that I'm talking into right now work correctly.
John Tabis 14:38
I'm sadly way down on my on my blockchain and based investments I bought like a stereo of like a year ago or whatever. Yeah, I bought like $800 worth of Bitcoin Bitcoin cash. aetherium aetherium classic ones
Katie Rotolo 14:54
that is, like not as popular as
John Tabis 14:57
Yeah, no, I bought all the ones that were like, so sort of kind of known. And I bought $800 with not that much. And it's now worth $319.26. So I'm taking it back down. Oh yeah, I was up. I bought for eight for 800 bucks, it went up to 14 $100 it almost doubled. And now it's worth 300
Katie Rotolo 15:15
I bought in pretty big when this all really started happening and talked about retiring early and all this and I sort of wonder just to hear you say that, you know, kind of how,
Unknown Speaker 15:25
yeah,
Katie Rotolo 15:26
must be doing and how Yeah, cuz I've heard it's, it has these it hits big and then it's
John Tabis 15:32
gone. Rough. rougher days, that's for sure. Well, let's bring in Jason is our as Ed mentioned earlier, Jason is a multi time founder, we'll have him talk about his couple companies that he's founded. He's also like, just this. He's, you guys will see, when you hang out with Jason, like two minutes, and your shoulders are gonna drop and you're just gonna feel the sense of ease. And he just has this sense of like, calm and wisdom about him. And, and it's, it's really kind of amazing. So Jason's coming in. We have a guest Yes, we. Yes. We have. Yes. We Hey, Jason bizarre, everybody.
Cousin Bill 16:19
Welcome to the show, the Titan of tech, the Colossus of compatibly. He puts the ups and startups Uncensored, Mr. Jason Nazar
Jason Nazar 16:31
leave after that it's gonna be all downhill from there after expectations.
Unknown Speaker 16:36
Bill is the wrestling fan.
Katie Rotolo 16:37
We've heard only great thing.
John Tabis 16:39
Good to see you, man. It's
been too long. It's been way too long. It's
fantastic to see you and your beautiful office and all the amazing things the books is doing. Yeah, man. I didn't even realize Jason hadn't seen the office until now. So while we were doing our intro, he was giving himself a self guided tour. What do you think?
Jason Nazar 16:57
I thought the tour guide did a fantastic job.
John Tabis 17:00
He was brilliant, entire way. Handsome as well.
Jason Nazar 17:04
Well, let's not take it too far.
John Tabis 17:07
So I was I was I was introducing you sort of, you know, to Katie, and bill before you came in. And I was describing how I feel like you are like the sage of silicon beach, like you have this persona and this presence that is just calming. And all this wisdom just comes forth. So we're super excited for you to share it with our listeners.
Jason Nazar 17:26
Thank you so much.
John Tabis 17:28
So we we this is super casual. We just sort of go back to like how it all started. And we just work our way to how you got to where you are and what it is you do today. So you don't have to spend a ton of time on it. But tell us a little bit about like where you grew up, like what was what was childhood like for you?
Jason Nazar 17:44
Well, I grew up here in Los Angeles, I'm a native and my parents have the same house I grew up in and you know, we live a mile and a half away from that. And my dad was entrepreneurial. And you know, he was an immigrant and he came here and work for $1 an hour and then, you know, made his way. And that was the example I always saw. And so I've been a serial entrepreneur and comparables. Now the fourth company I started fourth,
John Tabis 18:07
I only gave you credit for two. So Wow. Are you sure your name is Jason? Because apparently I know nothing.
Katie Rotolo 18:16
That's why he's here. He's gonna tell us
John Tabis 18:17
wait, go back for a second. This is actually the second time we've heard that the you know, dad was an entrepreneur. So he started off making a buck an hour. What was he doing to make a buck an hour, he moved
Jason Nazar 18:27
to New York in the 50s. And he was selling women's lingerie for $1 an hour. And he's fond to telling me the story of when he got a nickel raise. And he didn't know what a nickel was. So his boss came to him said, You're doing a great job. I'm gonna give you a nickel raise. Starting next week. My dad said, Thank you so much, and had no idea what it
Unknown Speaker 18:50
was just glad to have the raise. He was like, sure.
John Tabis 18:53
That sounds like it's more than zero. So I'm pretty pumped. Awesome. Thanks for the raise. And then and then you know, as sort of what was his big thing as an entrepreneur? Like, what was the thing that, you
Jason Nazar 19:03
know, got him to, to sort of the heights that he reached, he moved to Los Angeles with my mom and my three older siblings in the early 60s, and they bought a duplex that they lived in. And they rented out the other unit. And slowly he just turned that duplex into a couple units and a couple units into his first apartment building and then that first apartment building to two apartment buildings. And so you know, we real estate guy. Yeah. But really modest, just, you know, a small amount of property. But, you know, he held it for a long time. And you know, when you're able to buy something in the 60s and 70s in Los Angeles and holder for 40 years,
John Tabis 19:42
heck yeah.
Jason Nazar 19:43
A lot that, you know, can provide over time.
John Tabis 19:45
Yeah, you know, sometimes you have to for four years and you're rich. Sometimes you hold it for three years and it's all gone. That's awesome. So
Jason Nazar 19:55
you grew up with lesson of the value of staying in the game. It's something that you don't know Think about as it applies to startups. But, you know, most people hear the stories of companies that blow up like rocket ships, and they think they're gonna get in, and it's gonna be this fast ride, and they're gonna do something and you find out when you're actually in the arena, it's a decade of your life or even more, you know, and to those who are able to stick it out and stay in the arena through all the highs and lows and valleys and peaks, you know, the rewards often end up, you know, showcasing for them. And, you know, it's kind of the same for a generation of entrepreneurs before us and immigrants that just stuck it out. And over time, we're able to, you know, make something of themselves.
John Tabis 20:38
So it's actually I was one of those people. So when I started books, I really thought I was gonna be like a three year journey, you know, build something, I sell a 50 million, call it a day, nice and simple, right? But you've had four companies, and you're in a decade in each, so you must be like, 100 years old. But you look like you're 30. So it's confusing. But wait, so so you grow up with this with this amazing example. Tell us a little bit about like, what you were like, as a kid in high school or junior high, just like, what were you like?
Jason Nazar 21:10
I was, you know, trying to find my way I wasn't popular. I played well, now. You are
John Tabis 21:17
dammit. Everybody loves Jason Azhar.
Jason Nazar 21:20
It's funny how when you're young, the greatest thing that you could possibly strive for is popularity. And as you get older, it's the last thing you want to be you just want to spend time with a small group of people you really love and care about. I, you know, I was above average, academically, but not you know, by any means. The top of the class, I had a penchant for things like writing and actually an early age, my mom would put me in speech contests.
John Tabis 21:50
Cousin Bill had a pension for running into things with his head. Yeah.
Cousin Bill 21:54
Yeah. highly talented. Great. How many times?
Jason Nazar 21:59
Man 23. That's how many. Listen, some people made millions of dollars and MTV doing that don't
John Tabis 22:06
know, that was a stunt man for a decade money best ad
Jason Nazar 22:09
right in your head and beef just fine. You know, and I, I played sports, I played basketball. And that was a huge part of my identity as a kid and in high school. But there was definitely something in me that I was kind of always wanting to be a little different than the crowd. And I think part of that came from not being popular, not feeling that I fit in. And that, you know, I kind of took my own path. And then it really manifested in college were in my last year. And again, this wasn't like I was some popular well known person on campus. I went to UC Santa Barbara, which was a big school at 20,000. Students.
John Tabis 22:47
Why didn't you pick a place that was like prettier? Something?
Jason Nazar 22:49
Exactly. Yeah.
John Tabis 22:51
I don't understand how UC Santa Barbara and do anything
Katie Rotolo 22:56
except go to the beach. It's just a winery
John Tabis 22:58
that is a resort. That's not that's not even a school, the whole town.
Jason Nazar 23:04
Don't let the secret get out. Even more people are gonna fly.
John Tabis 23:07
Hey, talk to my wife. And I talked about like, you know, we should move to Santa Barbara, at some point raised the family and stuff and I was like, I would have to immediately be retired. Like, I don't think you can go Like who? Who has a job in Santa Barbara. You can. It's just to chill. You get to work. You'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna work. She's, you know, I
Jason Nazar 23:23
might as well let the secret out. Now, people just walk into empty office buildings. Nobody actually works.
John Tabis 23:28
It's like The Truman Show. Yeah. And
Jason Nazar 23:30
they just sit there for eight hours and then walk out and enjoy the sun and beach. And
John Tabis 23:35
if you bowed out too far, you run into the soundstage.
Katie Rotolo 23:38
So funny. I was actually talking to somebody about The Truman Show this morning. Good day, good night, my friends visiting from London. And she said, you know, do the mountains ever get old? It's like The Truman Show. I said, No, they never get old. I've been here almost 10 years, they never get old. And they always look fake it just like these layers of Mount. Does this even real? Just cloud in the sky?
John Tabis 23:57
Sorry. You'll you'll find that we run a lot of these sites. We get excited. Yeah, we get jazzed about things. I'm happy to take this anywhere you like Santa Barbara and senior year something happens.
Jason Nazar 24:07
Well, I I on a on a bet almost. And as a joke to start, I said I was going to run for student body president. And I was doing some volunteer work. And I was in the office where all the political stuff happened. And once again, you know, actually decided to do it. I just threw myself into it. And you know, I worked harder at that than I had it pretty much anything up until then. And I won. And it was a good lesson for me of how when I fully put myself behind something, how I could achieve things that you know, I thought that maybe I didn't even necessarily think but definitely other people didn't think I could do.
John Tabis 24:42
So it's interesting. So when you weren't trying to be popular, you weren't popular. But then as soon as you tried to be popular, you were the most popular guy. And I don't mean popular in like the like cheesy sense of like, look how cool I am. But like you when you literally went out and said, Hey, I want to be the person representing all of you everyday to make this place better. Everyone was like, yeah, we like Jason, we should totally make him that guy.
Jason Nazar 25:12
I'll say it a little differently, because I actually think it has applicability for business startups and all of life, which is, I think, you know, sometimes people just don't fit in, in the situations that they're in. And it can be a struggle. And I think when you find the thing that you care about, and love doing, and that you just put yourself behind, you know, good special things happen. And a lot of times, I think what a lot of entrepreneurs feel is that they're not meant for just what everybody else is going through, they don't want to have those same experiences, or they see the world a little differently, or, or they don't want to just follow what everybody else does. And I think that thing that makes you feel different, whether it was from unpopularity, or a feeling of loneliness, or a feeling that you wanted to have a different life is one of the motivators, that pushes people to do things that are unique and special.
John Tabis 26:02
So you sort of came into your own in that moment, you kind of kind of came out of your shell a little bit too, because you've finally felt in a role or in a situation where you felt comfortable. Yes, I love that. That is see that's way That's way better.
Unknown Speaker 26:16
That's why he was like, I
John Tabis 26:16
gotta Jason right. So I'm talking about That's amazing. So you win. Student Body President senior year. And so now you feel like you have a place which is a place of of leadership? Was that the thing that made you feel most comfortable there? Was it the salesmanship of it, was it the the collab like, what about that made you feel at home,
Jason Nazar 26:44
the biggest thing that it did for me is I had always been somebody that lived in my head, and was very imaginative and very creative. And this was the real world manifesting the kind of daydreams that I had had. So there's this phrase that I'll say sometimes, which is, you know, you'll see it when you believe it. And I think sometimes we have to have belief in ourselves and our own capabilities, even when there's no proof, or validation that we can do something, you know, if, if you were coming from a completely rational standpoint, there'd be nothing that told you that after working at Disney, and companies like shoedazzle, that you'd be someone in a position to build one of the best known brands in the United States and internationally for selling flowers and create a model that was direct to consumer and bypass decades and decades of entrenched players. But there was something that you believed in the vision that you saw, and that vision had to supersede with your own confidence and imagination, and belief. All the rational actors around you that would say, Well, that doesn't make sense. Why would that work? And it's, it's because you had that belief in yourself that, you know, you've built the brand that you have, and the company that you have, and served all those customers and created this unique model. And I think that was the thing that it started for me is that I started to feel like, Okay, well, I can see something in my mind's eye that I would want to have happen. And I actually believe that I know how to manifest these things into reality.
John Tabis 28:14
That that had, I mean, how long did did you actually have that realization that you did, as you just described to us now, when you were in college, or is this you know, after more than five years of reflection?
Jason Nazar 28:28
I think I had it, then I don't know if I could have explained it as simply as, hopefully, as you know, eloquently as I can right now. But I did, I think I understood at the time that I felt like, there's something going on here, where if I really put myself out there in life and take the biggest risk, like possible, and push myself to do things that maybe other people think I couldn't, well, maybe I can achieve those things that, you know, only some people hope to try to go after.
John Tabis 28:57
It's interesting, I think we've heard this now a couple times from a couple different of our guests, that there's a there's a level of I think, self reflection and self awareness that at least, you know, this is our fourth or fifth interview, that sort of happens. And it seems like it happens earlier for a lot of entrepreneurs like earlier in their careers for you, maybe senior year of college for me is way later, you know, six months ago. But, but I think that's a really interesting thing that we're starting to see as a theme, which is, you know, there's there's a sort of a self awareness of what works for for an entrepreneur and they sort of find that place where they fit in and then just go after a niche sort of drive after that. So so you finish up school, you know, hanging out on the beach in Santa Barbara, and then how do you make your way to starting your first company? Is it right away? Do you take some jobs? What's the journey there?
Jason Nazar 29:50
It was pretty much right away that actually the first full time job I had was when I was 35 years old, and I sold docstoc so that was the first time I was ever actually really full time employee. Oh, wow, funny. So the very first thing I did after I finished undergrad is, and the first two companies were really nothing like the last two, they were service companies. And I was just kind of figuring out my way. But the first company I started, I basically was a full time public speaker, which is really weird to think that that's what you're doing at 21.
John Tabis 30:20
But I did, what do you what do you talk about? I mean, at this point, you can talk about being student body president hanging out in the beach in Santa Barbara. You know, I think you're out of things to talk about at 21.
Jason Nazar 30:34
There, there were three things I did, the first thing I did was there was a company that was hiring folks to go and talk to high school students, it was eventually bought by monster.com, it was called Making the account. And so I spoke over a year and a half, probably to 100 different high schools across the country, which was, you know, really eye opening for me and, you know, gave me the opportunity to just again, have to refine, you know, public speaking over and over again. The second thing is there were companies called career track and Fred prior seminars, and they would hire people that were typically older, further along in their career in their 40s and 50s. And they would do seminars and things like negotiations and communication skills. And what I ended up realizing is that the motto was basically how much product you could sell in the back of the room. So even though I didn't have those work experiences, I convinced those folks that I would be a good salesperson, and I was, and so I got to do these different seminars, and really, I just immersed myself in reading. Every single self help book there was out there and regurgitated lessons that didn't come from my own life experience, but from other people like Stephen Covey or Tony Robbins,
John Tabis 31:38
this is how you became the sage of silicon beach. You've read every book, and then you figured out what works and what doesn't.
Jason Nazar 31:45
Well, I definitely think that, you know, reading and learning from other folks have fast tracked of shortcuts and, and then the third thing I did that, you know, sometimes people you know, remember is that, I ended up doing stage hypnosis shows for a year and a half. So I figured I took a class on hypnosis, and a very small segment of that was stage hypnosis. I got asked by friend if I could do what I said yes, not knowing how to do it, and ended up doing probably 50 shows across every college university in California over a year and so for a year and a half, I did those three things. Then I joined a startup. But
John Tabis 32:21
wait, wait, wait, could were you successful in hypnotizing people? Can you hypnotize Katy right now?
Jason Nazar 32:28
I was successful. Yeah,
John Tabis 32:29
I don't think I can be hypnotized. I'm like one of those people. I tried really hard. That was one of those guys came to high school. And I really wanted to be hypnotized. At least I thought I did. And I could not it just didn't work for me. But my friend Mara Finn, who was sitting next to me she was awesome. really tiny girl like this big. Totally an utterly hypnotized, like, at the at the end, he left a you know, he left an impression upon her that her legs wouldn't work until someone lifted her out of the chair. And she could not get up. It was it was like I was like March. Get up. Come on. It's time to go. She could not stand up was amazing. So that was you. You were that person?
Jason Nazar 33:03
That's amazing. Except for a year and a half. Yeah. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 33:06
What was the last time you hypnotize somebody?
Jason Nazar 33:09
Well, hypnosis is sounds, you know, when you explain it that way seems much more involved than what it actually is. It's really just a meditative state. So you're right in saying that, if you don't want to be hypnotized, you won't be and nobody can do that to you. But all it is, is a state of trance. So you go into the state of hypnosis yourself. dozens, if not hundreds of times a day, think of any time you're driving somewhere, and you make left turns and right turns and you get to your destination, and you didn't even really remember what you were doing. But you show Oh, yeah. That's trance. So all all hypnosis is is focused attention with a specific intention. And that intention is something that somebody else is driving, but then you give them permission to lead you on a journey around and so
Katie Rotolo 33:52
don't give them permission, then they
Jason Nazar 33:54
Yeah, if you don't. into meditative state, you can't just like if I said, hey, let's meditate right now. You're like, No, I'm not gonna meditate.
John Tabis 34:06
I refuse to be that chill.
Unknown Speaker 34:07
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 34:08
john doesn't like all that.
Jason Nazar 34:11
But I, but that did start me down a path of getting really fascinated with, you know, persuasion. You know, I've written and spoken a lot for the last 15 years on persuasion. There's a pretty, you know, watched talk I do. And article I wrote that you can read on Forbes, called the principles of persuasion. And when I tried to break down is, if you look at the most famous religious leaders or political leaders or business leaders, what are the things that they do to actually persuade other people, which is voluntary is typically a win win. And there's a whole set of behaviors that most people do in common, and I think, especially as business leaders, it's valuable and important to understand what those behaviors are to be able to help achieve the outcomes that we're going for.
John Tabis 34:56
That's amazing. I actually didn't know this. This whole part of of your of your history, but I'm not surprised that you were early on a speaker. I mean, Jason has spoken all around la in this ecosystem. And and he he is persuasive. You can you can see it right now Katie is persuaded. It's already
Unknown Speaker 35:16
I'm hypnotized.
John Tabis 35:17
Yes. So you start out sort of hustling through the speaking circuit. And then and then stage hypnosis. And then where do you go from there? What's the next sort of evolution in the journey?
Jason Nazar 35:32
So from there, there were three things that happened over the next couple of years. The first was, I got started working in my first startup, it was a non tech startup we're basically trying to do is franchise chiropractic offices, which sounded great, but was actually really bad business model, but it taught me a lot and being part of something that wasn't working. And when I was 23, left an impression upon me of, Okay, well, when I'm in the driver's seat, there's some things that I think I'm gonna really do differently. I then went to get a JD MBA, so I got my degree in law and an MBA. I went to Pepperdine, which I think, you know, and then while I was in grad school, I so
Katie Rotolo 36:11
in a terrible location, Pepperdine.
John Tabis 36:15
Jason's Jason's looking at all the schools and his He's like, okay, so is it more than a mile and a half from the water spots? And if the answer is no, it's awfulest.
Jason Nazar 36:25
And our offices have been in Santa Monica for a decade. So that's definitely a theme here. But then, in business school and law school, I started a consulting company with a classmate of mine, who's my co founder, comparatively, and was the CEO of docstoc, who, you know, Mike Sheridan. And so, you know, definitely, you know, talks about the importance of relationships, and we were writing business plans for companies, and we wrote, you know, probably 20 business plans for companies, you know, over the course of a year and a half. And then in my last year of law school, I had the idea for docstoc, and I was off to the races. And so what was docstoc? Like, what
John Tabis 37:02
was the give us the core business? Yeah,
Jason Nazar 37:04
docstoc, started as YouTube for documents and ended up becoming the largest content site for small businesses. So at its core, it was still a user generated content site, primarily focused around legal documents, business documents, financial documents, so any document ever needed to start or grow a business we had, but then we produced original videos, we had articles. And you know, the site got to a pretty large scale, we had 30 million unique visitors a month at our peak, 50 million registered users, and at the end of 2013, into it bought the company,
John Tabis 37:37
and what so I want to hear about comparatively to but I think one of the things that I'm constantly amazed by Jason is that Jason's built these, you know, how many people were ended up at docstoc at the end? About 80. But 80 people? Can you can revenues disclosed ever said something you can share now?
Jason Nazar 37:57
Yeah, we were we did about like $12 million, and pretty much 100% gross margin. So it was an online subscription service. So you know, we're the The nice thing about that company, was we've only raised $4 million, ever, we were profitable, within the first 18 months, we pretty much had all the cash we raised when we sold the company. And so, you know, it took, you know, took eight years to build that business. But by the end, you know, it was pretty unique in the sense that, you know, people were just signing up every single day for subscription services. And, you know, it was a pretty high margin business.
John Tabis 38:35
And so that that's sort of where I was gonna go with this is like, you know, I'm on, I think one side of the spectrum where we raise $50 million. You know, I don't own a big chunk of books anymore, sort of gone the hardcore VC route. And we're, I'm amazed by what Jason has done, as he's now built two companies with comparatively How much have you raised for that company?
Jason Nazar 38:55
We raise quite a bit more for comparable, we've raised $14 million so far.
John Tabis 38:59
Okay. So still, but compared comparatively, a lot, a lot lower on the lower scale, what I think is so impressive is how you conceive of and build the business models with this concept of profitability at scale without having to plow a ton of capital into it. Was that intentional? it? Was that sort of thought out beforehand, or is that something you learned along the way with
Jason Nazar 39:25
with docstoc? I think it's a function of three things. I I definitely think it's my bias in the sense that, you know, again, I grew up with a very entrepreneurial father but also somebody that was always extremely into this day's cost conscious I mean, to give you a frame of reference, my father's 88 you know, he's had the good fortune of working and saving his whole life. And he drives you know, miles and miles out of the way to go to smart and final to save 35 cents on on gallons of water that he buys. 15 at a time to get the biggest discount, and that's who he is, you know, he has the mentality, even after all these years that every single penny counts. And so
John Tabis 40:08
he also gets the big box of famous Amos, because they're just the bottom,
Katie Rotolo 40:12
he doesn't matter, I will still say half as much, even though I drove this much further.
Jason Nazar 40:18
So that was I mean, that's where I came from. So that informed me. And then the second thing, it's just the reality and necessity, which is that some businesses take off like a rocket ship. And the truth is, you shouldn't in any way, be focused on profitability, because it doesn't maximize the ultimate enterprise value of the business. And a lot of the companies that, you know, I've invested in and I'm on the board of, you know, my advice to them will often be, hey, now's not the time to not only focus on profit, but maybe not even focus on revenue. And that's because each situation needs its own context. I think, you know, if at some point, you know, you definitely want to, you know, be the master of your own destiny, I think what people overlook in raising venture capital is not necessarily how much capital you take in. But if you always have to raise that next round of capital, and not just for growth, but but to stay alive, then you don't really control your own destiny, and you put your business and your own equity stake and your own opportunity costs at risk. And so I like to be in a position where I'm raising capital, because it's my choice because I can drive growth that but not because I have to. And so one of the things that we've done unique comparatively, is even after we raised that $14 million, we've never had more than 15 employees. So we've been very thoughtful and judicious about how we deployed capital, we've kept the team small, this is the first year that we're actually selling our, our SAS software to companies, and it's going really well. And we have the ability to continue to, you know, keep going for a long time without raising the next round of capital, because we didn't just, you know, bring on, you know, 60 or 70 people right away. Now, the flip side of that is, if I could have deployed capital more quickly, to build the business faster. I certainly would have. But in our case, you know, we're a direct competitor of glass doors, we need to get employees all over the world to come to our website and leave reviews and ratings, we collected different kinds of feedback than Glassdoor. Glassdoor does, which is honestly harder to get but more valuable. And so it just takes time to build up a site like that. And we needed to be thoughtful and judicious about how we deploy that capital.
John Tabis 42:25
One, I think the, you know, I think your point around maintaining control is, is really important. But then also the, you know, understanding what your business needs when and it's really hard to do that, right? Because you don't know what the future brings for your business. You don't know what happens in the next year, you don't know what opportunities you might be missing on. And so I think it's it's really one of those things that founders at the really thoughtful of, and you probably only get right after you've done it two or three times, and you sort of learn what types of businesses and when you might need different different levels of resources. So So tell us about comparables and some comparisons a Glassdoor competitor, but verified, you know, users, which I think is hugely important. But just give us the the two seconds on, on what comparable he is.
Jason Nazar 43:12
Yeah, I'll tell you what comparable he is. And then I'll go maybe go backwards and quickly explain why we started it. So comparatively, is a website where employees publicly rate and review their employers, and where you can see compensation data to how much people like you are getting paid. And so we do compete directly with Glassdoor, but we're pretty different fundamentally from them, in the sense that Glassdoor focuses on getting a written review. And we have employees basically fill out surveys about their company. And so we're able to do unique things that give every company a gender scoring diversity score, we showcase how companies are performing across multiple different dimensions from their leadership, to how people think about the future outlook of the business to how folks think about, you know, things as specific as meetings and their compensation. And then, because we deal in data that's structured and can be scored numerically, we can show how everything compares to each other. And so part of what I think Glassdoor leaves on the table, and is not an optimal experience is you never really understand well, is this a great company? Or is it an average company? Or is it a sub performing company, and we actually have specific data that shows how everything rates versus each other. And probably most importantly, and, you know, a lot of us that have been, you know, running companies that on the HR side, deal with this, I think employee review sites in general, have, in large part become venting grounds. And what you have is folks that have are not indicative of the overall experience of a company and they're the ones that become the loudest and most heard voices. And that's not representative of what the actual company culture is. And so the question becomes, how can you really understand what it's like to work at a company both from the perspective of an employee, and how can the companies themselves have the most accurate and fair representation of their company culture displayed online, and that's what compatibly is there for
John Tabis 44:59
me. And the talk a little bit about what you see in the data that tends to lead towards at least from your, your, you know, 50,000 foot view companies with great culture. Like, if you look at the trends in the data, what is it the companies are doing? What is there not? is it all about the ping pong table? And the free beer? I'm sorry, I'm assuming it's not. But talk us through like the broad trends, what do you see in that data that says Like, if you were to see a profile of company, you know, what it was whatever you could probably predict it was going to be a really great cultural score, because of whatever it might be.
Jason Nazar 45:39
The first thing we just put out there is, you know, the companies that are doing well against their business metrics, it cures a lot of other sins. And so you know, regardless of whether a company is being run fantastically or subpar, if the business is performing, it's you know, the rising tide lifts all boats, so every company gets a benefit for that. And the fact of the matter is, companies that are still trying to find their way have to be even that much better culturally. But specifically, to your point, I think the things that we see are companies that are over communicative. So for example, people consistently rate the single biggest thing they want their managers to get better at is communication, even more than integrity, and trustworthiness and hard work and fairness, you know, communication is the single biggest thing they want. And so I think, especially in the environment today, where there's so much information available to folks, they want their companies to be open and transparent, and communicative. So that's one thing. The second thing is they're definitely looking for, you know, situations of professional growth. And so they want to be in organizations where they feel like they're being rewarded, and they have a chance to grow professionally. And then you know, third, you do see, comp compensation play a part in so people are looking for companies that are competitive on pay and on benefits. But that's often not the first, you know, it's definitely in the mix. But people even in a market is competitive it is today, we'll put other things above compensation and traditional perks and benefits, if they feel like they're an environment that's supportive, if they feel like they have opportunities for professional growth, if they feel like their company is communicative and open and transparent. And, you know, the other biggest thing is the quality of the other co workers. And so one of the things that you know that it's just the hardest thing to get right. as, you know, a leader and as an employer is keeping that high standard for every single person you hire. Because it's not the founder and CEO, it's not the C level execs that as the company grows really determined the company culture, it's, it's everybody, that's just their day to day. And when you have even an organization of 100, or 500 people, a couple folks that are bad apples, and by that I don't even necessarily mean that they're not good at their job, but just that they don't want to be there or they don't, the experience that they want the values they have don't match the values of the company, it really starts to corrode the experience from everybody there. And so one of the things I've often preached is the single biggest thing you can do for company culture is not what you do once somebody gets in the door, but who you bring in the door to begin with. And when you have somebody that's not the right cultural fit, or is a subpar performer and is bringing down the team, be aggressive about you know, making the switch and letting that person find the opportunity that's right for them somewhere else, even if that means letting them go.
John Tabis 48:27
Yeah, we I Jason and I had a conversation once about how to build a great culture. And I asked him a similar question. I was like, hey, look, if you have people that are, you know, we actually use this, this this story, or allegory, or whatever, I don't know, a couple episodes ago, around, you know, you have, you know, everyone's trying to push the boulder up the hill. And then you have some folks that are standing in the side, just watching. I mean, you have some folks that are standing on top of the boulder making it way harder. And we and we're sort of talking about like, hey, look, if they're not pushing up the hill, at least I remember you sort of you were like they have to go. And it's, it's like, not even a question. If they're standing by the side, just watching everybody else struggling pushing it up the hill, they're not willing to help, they gotta go. And even though they're kind of neutral, it's just they're not on board. They're not culturally with you. They gotta go now because it's just gonna bring everybody else down. And actually remember being afraid of that advice, because I was meant I was enough to make some really hard decisions, and actually didn't do it. And it was actually the wrong keyword. 100%. Right. But those are really hard things to do. Right, especially when you're, we're near in early stages of a company. And so that decisiveness i think that that you have I think is one of the things that makes you a really great leader of people. And and the, I think why you're able to build a sizable company on the back of 15 people is because everyone's rowing the boat, right? everyone's on the same page.
Jason Nazar 49:49
And I'm a work in progress, I think, you know, it's an interesting thing being the company that, you know, is publicly displaying what every other company culture is. Because we really have to have our stuff in order and you see it, it's clear, and it's not as if you know, our company culture is an A plus in all categories all the time, I think the things that I try to stress are being, you know, over and above transparent, you know, setting really clear expectations for what success looks like. And still, you know, today at 40, and after doing this for a long time, I never, you know, asked my team to do something to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. And so if I'm saying, Hey, we got to stay here and work late, I'm the first and last to leave. If I'm saying that, you know, we need to be better in these specific areas, then I've got to hold myself accountable to do those things first. And those are the kinds of things that I think, does build that accountability over time. And what I would say is that, you know, I, I went through this journey, and I think there's this experience that we all go through as founders and CEOs, where we started to get really frustrated with our teams. And we're like, oh, why can't they just do more of this? Or why can't they be like this, or why don't they see the value of the opportunity. And that was often my theme, which is like, if my team could just keep up with me, or if they just appreciated the opportunity had, and finally had to look myself in the mirror one day and say, Well, I'm the person that hired these folks. And I'm the person that's ultimately managing them or managing their managers. And so I'm the one that's responsible to make this better, not them. And what I really believe today is that I really think most people that I've met, you know, have unique gifts want to give something want to really do great in their career. But it's just like relationship you can take to good people, and it's just not always a fit, you know, you can take two incredible people, you know, in your life, and, and they'll be completely successful and other relationships. But not every relationship, person you meet, you can be, you know, successful with them. Part of it is timing and expectations, what you're looking for. And so, part of it with startups is it's hard. And people want to have to be at a stage of their life and career, where they are willing to put their career above some other things, you know, whether that social life or as much flexibility. And they want, they have to want to be in a situation where they're going to get continuous feedback, and whether they're going to get pushed. And if someone's not at that stage of their career, there's no judgment on and they can have an incredibly valuable, rewarding career somewhere else, but typically not in a high growth stage startup, where you're going to be asked to do the jobs of two or three people. And it requires you to, you know, grow into somebody that you aren't at that moment that I think the job of folks in your in my position is to be able to find that talent, and put them in the situation where it matches what they personally want for their careers at that moment. Well, what the needs and opportunities of the company are in that moment.
John Tabis 52:56
Yeah, I think the I had a situation once with an employee where, you know, multiple, who want to on a given team had left for various reasons in a short period of time. And the expectation by them was like, Well, I have to do two or three jobs. So I should get paid a lot more. And it was sort of like, no, that's just the job, because this is a startup and this is going to happen, like the change is going to happen. People above you're gonna leave people below, you're gonna leave people to decide you're going to leave, other people are going to come in, they're going to work out great, other ones aren't, and the business is going to change. So the needs are gonna change and this constant change and that need to be flexible and adapt, just is is the job itself and the people that are that can be chameleons, and kind of adjust from one stage to the next to the ones that ride the whole way. But one of the things I was gonna ask you about is in those moments where you've recognized that someone is just not a fit, right? And this is something that I've seen a number of times is that when it's not a fit, people feel like that's bad for some reason. And the person who's leaving might think it's bad, or others might think it's bad. And it's not bad. It just isn't the right fit, right? You know, my high school girlfriend and I didn't get married. Like, you know, that's not bad. Like, I don't know what she's doing.
Unknown Speaker 54:11
She dodged the bullet.
Cousin Bill 54:13
But a How dare you.
John Tabis 54:16
But like, it's not bad. It's just how it is and and how do you think about how to communicate that context? And how to get team members to understand that lack of a fit isn't a judgment on the person, and it's not a judgment on the company? It's just what's best for everyone? What are the things that you do as a manager or that you coach your managers to do or that you've seen other managers do that, that helps get that across? Or is it one of those things? It's just, it's just really hard to get people to understand?
Jason Nazar 54:43
Well, I'll give you the tactics. What I will say first is that I actually think the mistake that a lot of folks make the first time around with entrepreneurship, and I certainly did too, is that you worry so much of what the ramifications gonna be after you let somebody go and how People are going to respond. And actually, in most cases, it's not a big deal at all. You know, your team knows when something's not a right fit as soon as you do, and, you know, they're not in the position to make that final call, but often when someone's not there afterwards, either of their own volition or because the company had to make the call, you know, everyone kind of feels relieved afterwards, my, my actual experience has been the majority of people I've had to let go, or not angry or not hurt, there's a little bit of shock, when it happens, you know, just because no one's typically wanting that. But typically, the majority feeling is relief. And that's because that team member knows that they're not in a situation where they're in a position to do their best work, and they need to find something that's right for them. And so the the main thing I would say to entrepreneurs to start into founders and the C level execs into any manager is, you know, don't be afraid to making that call, when you have strong conviction, that is the wrong fit. Because the consequences that you're worried about often don't happen, and you're actually creating consequences by keeping that person in there,
John Tabis 56:02
right, the lack of action is just as impactful as taking action, if not more.
Jason Nazar 56:07
Now, the flip side of that is, I have a very specific process for stuff like this. And what I mean by that is a, I've never surprised anybody. So I always have the conversation with somebody, you know, two, three, sometimes even four times of when they're not meeting the company's expectations, right, or whether or not mean, the metrics that they were, you know, need to deliver. And so this is a conversation that happens a person, it's a conversation that happens in writing, there's a time for checking back in. And so I think if you do it, right, from a managerial standpoint, nobody should ever get caught off guard. And that's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, if it actually comes to the time in place where you need to have that conversation, just be Matter of fact, be thoughtful, and you know, where appropriate, I always offer to help somebody in what they're going to look to do next in their career, you know, I'm often not upset at a person, you know, if it comes to that place, it's just a realization that it's not the right fit. But then third, to your point is, we don't keep this a secret from a team, we immediately let folks know, we send out a company wide email that there's a bit of transition, we typically do some kind of address with the team as a whole, we wish people well. And we just give a chance to let people kind of ask any questions defuse it, because I think what happens is when there's uncertainty, and people don't know, well, is this something about the company? Am I gonna maybe be at risk here? Is there something that I'm missing about what's going on, that's when the anxiety starts to build up, that's when uncertainty starts to build up. And that's when these other negative things come into play. And I think the way you avoid it is being again, overly transparent about what's going on and why it's going on. And I think when that's the case, you know, for the most part, you know, it turns out, okay,
John Tabis 57:49
and one of the I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day, and I think one of the best relationships that I've had, as you know, the either the founder, or as the manager is when, you know, whoever I'm managing, at any level, is comfortable enough to talk to me about what's good, what's not good in the gig, and where they're feeling great when they're not feeling great. And I've had folks come to me and be like, you know, this has been really awesome, but I really want to do this thing. And I think people are afraid to have that conversation. They think like, if you say, you don't want to be here, then then it's like, oh, you're gonna be fired the next day or something. But really great managers will help you get what that other thing is, like, we had a salesperson once, who just really wanted to be in sports. And you know, eventually, just over time, just started talking about how he loved sports. And this is really what I was like, man, I went to Disney. I know lots people, ESPN, let me see any I didn't get them a job there. But I was like, you can talk to this first, you don't have that part. She's like, wow, like, you're not bummed that I don't want to be here. I'm like, of course, like, it'd be great if this was great for you. But I don't want you to toil away and flower floral for the rest of your life. If you're passionate to be here somewhere else, like you should go and be that and and I was proud of him because he was only like, I don't know, 2324 at the time that he brought it up in the first place. But I think people were nervous about that, you know, they're afraid of saying anything other than like, yeah, I'm in it till death do us part, like we're gonna climb this mountain forever. And I think the you know, when you have that level of trust, it can be a much healthier relationship for both the employer and the employee. And then everyone can figure out like sort of how to get to the end altogether, rather than necessarily being something where everyone doesn't have full information.
Jason Nazar 59:23
I think you nailed on the head. I think the key takeaway is, it's actually the responsibility of the company and the managers of the company, to open the doorway for that feedback. You know, most folks, especially on the early on the career are going to feel comfortable saying, Hey, here's how I feel about the company or something about my career. And so I've come to feel very strongly that most companies provide vastly too little feedback. And you know, if you think about it, it's you shouldn't have to wait three months or six months or a year to get performance feedback. And so, I've tried to institute and I coach, other companies do the same to have managers with your direct reports. Do 15 minute meetings each week, I typically recommend, hey, just got out and do a walk. And in each of those, you asked three or four questions, which is, how do you feel like things are going at the company? What feedback do you have for me? And what can I improve? What resources are helped you need. And then in addition, give that person a little bit of feedback on where they've been excelling in any areas that they need to improve. And by doing that, it's that simple mechanism with your direct reports. Every week, which you know, most people have anywhere from probably five to, you know, 10 direct reports. So it's manageable timewise, it just provides so much benefit, it provides so much continuous feedback back to the the managers and the people leading the company of what can continue to improve. And it helps give you a real sense of where people are at in their career and how happy they are at the company and what they'd like to see improved. And I think that's one of the simple mechanisms that does meaningfully improve company cultures.
John Tabis 1:00:59
And you just have to be consistent with it. Right? It can't be something you do twice, and then you forget about it for six months, you come back, and it has to become part of the way that you operate.
Jason Nazar 1:01:08
Exactly.
John Tabis 1:01:08
I love it, man. Hey, look, we're pretty much out of time, but just wanted to say thanks for coming by Hope everyone listening learned as much as we did from Jason, thank you so much for coming by man. It's great to see you.
Jason Nazar 1:01:21
I love the podcast. It's incredible. It's awesome. What you're doing to give back to everybody and so exciting to see you know, the continued journey the books is on and you know, honored to be a part of it in some small way. Hopefully,
John Tabis 1:01:33
no, absolutely, man. Please make sure
Katie Rotolo 1:01:35
he gets out of here though. We are going to do a quick lightning round.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:38
Oh, lightning round. I
John Tabis 1:01:39
forgot what lightning round. Oh, boy. You ready for the lightning round? Jason
Katie Rotolo 1:01:42
and guys, real quick. I'm just gonna
John Tabis 1:01:48
mark this time bill. Totally forgot about the lightning round. Yeah, so
Katie Rotolo 1:01:54
bill is gonna be on a little bit of a delay, but I think it'll work out.
John Tabis 1:01:57
Yeah, I think. So. Bill's gonna give you a little, a little quiz.
Cousin Bill 1:02:02
Direct. So we do this. We try to do this with every guest whenever they're on the way out. I'm just gonna give you two options. And without even you know, just give us a first thought whenever I give you both options. So first question. iPhone or droid,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:18
iPhone. Verizon or at&t, at&t. crypto or VR? VR.
John Tabis 1:02:25
Burn Berger lime.
Jason Nazar 1:02:28
Neither
Unknown Speaker 1:02:34
car
Jason Nazar 1:02:34
Sagan
Unknown Speaker 1:02:37
Uber
Cousin Bill 1:02:39
Starbucks or Dunkin?
Jason Nazar 1:02:43
Neither pass. I don't drink coffee and I shouldn't be doing donuts. I probably need more donuts than I should have.
John Tabis 1:02:49
Did you know that they rebranded from Dunkin Donuts to just Dunkin? Dunkin?
Cousin Bill 1:02:53
Yeah, I've adjusted Netflix or Amazon Prime.
Jason Nazar 1:02:58
Netflix.
Cousin Bill 1:03:01
apprentice for Shark Tank?
Jason Nazar 1:03:03
Shark Tank?
Cousin Bill 1:03:05
Silicon Valley or silicon beach?
Jason Nazar 1:03:07
Do I even have to answer that seriously?
John Tabis 1:03:12
In your faces Valley books are one 800 flowers How dare you? How dare you?
Jason Nazar 1:03:20
My answer to every question is the books.
Cousin Bill 1:03:25
Congratulations you won the lightning round. Yes sir.
John Tabis 1:03:27
The Victor Nice work Jason. Thank you again man. Great to see you. Really appreciate it. And everybody you can you can find just tell us where everybody can find you. So comparables calm?
Jason Nazar 1:03:38
Yeah, go comparables calm and you know, go on there and you know, rate your company and help make workplaces more transparent. And then
John Tabis 1:03:45
what about you personally? How do I hire you to come and hypnotize people on stage?
Jason Nazar 1:03:51
Well, if you invent a time machine you could probably do that. But you can find me on Twitter at Jason Azhar my blog. Jason is art calm. And then I'm always writing on some, you know, Wall Street Journal or Inc or Business Insider. And so, a Google search typically finds the most recent stuff. Jason is epic. We didn't we didn't dive into your work with the mayor's office. Jason's written a lot on mental health and sort of the highs and lows and the challenges of being a founder. So we hope to have you back again.
John Tabis 1:04:24
Maybe in 2019 and we can even share even more with the with the audience.
Jason Nazar 1:04:29
I'd love to I may not leave the office it's so awesome here.
John Tabis 1:04:35
Tomorrow morning on this couches, you crash awesome thank you again man. We'll run and everybody thanks so much for tuning in. Again. Thank you for listening with this this pirate ship is flying because you guys are the wind in our sails. Please remember to rate us on iTunes. Please share us and subscribe. And, you know follow us at at given the biz and don't forget our sponsors, the books company b.com best flowers in the world. Firestone beer, you can sponsor us any time you'd like. I've been away. I've been stocking a bunch of Firestone employees on LinkedIn. By the way, guys,
I started getting some responses.
So I'm working it, I'm working it and really appreciate everybody tuning in. We'll catch you guys next time later.
Cousin Bill 1:05:22
Thanks for listening to give him the business podcasts from the books and podcast one. Be sure to download new episodes every Tuesday right here on podcast one on the podcast one app or on Apple podcasts. And don't forget to rate review and share. also find us on Twitter and Instagram under the handle at give him the biz gi v m th e bi z
Unknown Speaker 1:05:45
podcast one is your one stop shop for everything TV and pop culture of very candid not even supposed to be on the record conversation and check out any of the collider network podcasts
Jason Nazar 1:05:55
like TV talk, movie talk
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
collider live and more. And for you reality TV fans, Rob cisternino has got you covered with Rob has a podcast.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:04
This is a no subs nothing.
John Tabis 1:06:06
You literally have a podcast about nothing. Check out the collider network and Rob has a podcast every week on podcast one or wherever
Unknown Speaker 1:06:13
you get your favorite podcasts.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
